David and Madeline McQueen: Step Into Your Magnificence

October 27, 2022 00:53:55
David and Madeline McQueen: Step Into Your Magnificence
Genuine Humans
David and Madeline McQueen: Step Into Your Magnificence

Oct 27 2022 | 00:53:55

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Hosted By

The Social Element

Show Notes

When David and Madeline McQueen co-founded the leadership development firm, Q-Squared, they set out to teach leaders how to use clarity, confidence and empowerment to thrive. 

This week, they join Tamara and Wendy to talk about how they met and what led the couple to go into business together. We hear how their early lives helped shape the confident leaders they are today.

We also hear about the importance of self-belief, clarity of purpose and the value of maintaining a positive mindset.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 00:00:12 Welcome to Genuine Humans, exploring the stories behind the great marketing leaders of our time and hearing how their journeys have influenced the brand they've built, brought to you by the social element. Here are our hosts to Mara Littleton, ceo, e o, and founder. And Wendy Christie, chief People Officer. Speaker 2 00:00:44 Welcome back to Genuine Cuban's podcast. Wendy, how are you doing? It's lovely to have you here. Thank you. Speaker 3 00:00:51 Yeah, I'm doing really well. Thanks. How are Speaker 2 00:00:53 You? I'm doing very well and I'm particularly excited, so excited about the guests that we have on because this is a bit of a first. We actually have two podcast guests together, the wonderful David and Madeline McQueen. Welcome to the podcast. Speaker 4 00:01:10 Thank you. Thank Speaker 5 00:01:11 You. Thank you for having us. Yeah, I wanna go. Yay. Speaker 2 00:01:14 We do that. Speaker 4 00:01:15 We're making history. Yes, Speaker 2 00:01:18 We are making history. And I feel like everyone knows who you are, but I'm going to just sort of say cuz it's actually tried difficult to sort of pin you down because you are executive coaches. You are amazing keynote speakers. I got to see you both speaking together in person at, uh, the most recent marketing academy Scholars training. And I was just blown away. But how do you describe yourselves? Speaker 5 00:01:45 So, I describe myself as an executive coach, a soft skills trainer, and a speaker and sometime host. They're the things that I tend to do. And what I do is I, I, all of my work is based on three words, clarity, confidence, and empowerment. And in there is strategy and all of those sorts of things, but it's about getting really clear about who you are, where you want to go, what you wanna do. So, you know, building evidence-based confidence and then using those two to be empowered. And then once you've got all of that, you can thrive ultimately. So that's what I, I talk about in there is leadership and self-development and, and professional development. But that's where, that is the core of everything that I do. Speaker 4 00:02:28 I'm the co-founder of Q Squared Limited with my Speaker 5 00:02:30 Wife. Oh yeah. I never say that. Ever. <laugh>. Yeah, Speaker 4 00:02:32 That's fine. You did yours. I did mine. I'm the co-founder of Q Squared Limited. Speaker 5 00:02:35 Oh, hold on. One more thing. And I'm also the founder of the Compass Club, uh, which is a club exclusively for women in the world of work who are emerging or, or actual leaders. And it's really a safe space for them to grow, to explore themselves, to find their direction and to be the best that they can be. But also to find, find tribe. It's difficult to grow when obviously maybe you're the only one or maybe you are at a particular level and there is nobody to have that conversation with. Speaker 4 00:03:07 I'm the co-founder of Q Square Limited Speaker 2 00:03:09 <laugh>, you're just gonna go with that. <laugh>. Speaker 4 00:03:12 Similar, similar to Madden speaking, coaching, facilitation around leadership and culture. Those are the main things I Speaker 2 00:03:18 Do. But you also updated your LinkedIn recently. Speaker 4 00:03:21 Yes. Compassionate provocateur. Speaker 2 00:03:23 I love that. I love that. Speaker 5 00:03:26 <laugh>. I'm gonna kill my mouth. Speaker 3 00:03:28 <laugh>. <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:03:30 So I want to go back, because you both have your own careers, but you, you have co-founded your company and you have been doing keynotes together. How has that been? And could I also actually just get you to go back and say, how did you actually meet in the first place? Can I, can I go there? Speaker 4 00:03:49 Yeah. A hundred percent. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> a hundred percent. Do you want my version? Let me go with my version of the story Please. Speaker 5 00:03:53 Yeah. Then I can do the corrections. Yes. Speaker 3 00:03:55 <laugh>. Speaker 4 00:03:56 So we met many years ago, 34 years ago to be exact. She was actually dating a young man who I knew. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. We used to play basketball together. That's when we first met. And we met at a concert in Milton Keens. It was take six, uh uh, uh, gospel stroke, jazz acapella, sex tech. Cause there's six of them. Yeah. Acapella group. So we met there, um, very brief. I waved at her, quickly shook her hand and then kept it moving. And then we met in the May, may or June later of that year at a church event in Lordship Lane in North London. Okay. Fill in the gaps. Speaker 5 00:04:31 You really tried hard, didn't you? Speaker 3 00:04:34 <laugh>? I was expecting, I am the co-founder Speaker 4 00:04:40 Of this relationship. Speaker 5 00:04:41 <laugh>, Speaker 5 00:04:43 Actually that's a really interesting story because uh, yeah, we, we met like in 1988. It's so long ago. It just is crazy. Um, this is yesterday and uh, we met actually Ben, and it's so interesting because I had just broken up with somebody that David knew and we just got talking and it was so interesting because we didn't actually end up talking to anybody else because we were just chatting. Yeah. And it was just like, oh, this is really comfortable and easy. And then I, uh, you know, so we'd seen each other and, and then, um, so I'm originally from Lester and uh, I'd come down to London for this event and there'd been a few days. Yeah. After a few days he called me and he said, um, so you know, I've really enjoyed talking to you, da da da, and I'd like to have a relation with you. Now I was an English literature and English language student and I was like, what? The answer you talking about is it's relationship. Um, okay. He likes to say Go on, go say it. This is, Speaker 4 00:05:48 So this is important. This is quite prophetic. We have two daughters. So I was being intentional. We now have two relations Speaker 6 00:05:58 ForSight through the English language. I knew where Speaker 5 00:06:00 I was going. Ok. Yeah. So we, we, we dated, you know, like obviously I was at, we were young as well, you know, I was in Lester, he was in London. We spent, grew up money. Yeah. We grew up as very strict Seventh day Renis as well. Both of our families. So I, which is obviously one of the reasons why we met. Um, cause it was a church event. So, you know, for four years we were having this long distance relationship and I think I used all of my inheritance to, um, travel to London. And uh, and then I, you know, and then I moved and to London and I think I was here for maybe about three years before we got married. And yeah. You know, our relationship had its, its ups and downs as relationships do. One of the best things that we ever did was have marriage counseling before we got married. Oh wow. Definitely recommend it for all couples. Yeah. Because there's so many things that you don't have conversations about. Oh my god. That you just keep kind of brushing under the comp carpet and it all came out, which was really useful. First two, uh, sessions. We didn't actually speak to each other after. Did not talk to each other afterwards. Afterwards at all. Like, drop me home, I'll not Goodbye. Speaker 4 00:07:04 Goodbye. Nice to seeing you. We're getting mad. Speaker 5 00:07:06 Really? There is no nice to see you. <laugh>. <laugh>. So yeah. And then obvious was having moved to London and you know, it kind of all went from there. We both had separate careers. So David Speaker 4 00:07:17 To the careers. Yeah. Cause that's coming. Let's talk about Speaker 5 00:07:19 The relation. Yeah, they did actually, Speaker 4 00:07:21 Let's talk about the relations first. Speaker 5 00:07:22 They did actually ask about, Speaker 4 00:07:23 About relation. Speaker 2 00:07:25 <laugh>. It's all connected. <laugh>. Speaker 4 00:07:27 It's all connected. Speaker 5 00:07:28 Go ahead, go ahead. So I, I got a job, um, as a financial advisor. A crazy, crazy world. Uh, David actually ended up being an accountant. Speaker 4 00:07:38 I was for eight years. Speaker 5 00:07:39 And I, I came out as the ideal salesperson. So, cause I took a psychometric test and so I ended up in sales as a financial advisor. I'd actually gone for a customer service job. And yeah, from there ended up in IT sales, selling it to corporate mun, corporate account manager, then running a team. You had a different track, didn't you? That Yeah. And then I left work cuz I had a mass miscarriage and it was, I was Speaker 4 00:08:07 Talk about the baby first. The first child you had. Speaker 5 00:08:09 Oh yeah. I had a child, um, <laugh>. I had a child. Actually, it's really interesting working with a child in a pretty email dominated space. Not that the work I in, it's just that the leadership was very male. And also just the, the decisions and also a really strict, the Adventist sense. So many decisions were made in the pub that I never went to. Speaker 4 00:08:30 So being seventh, the Adventist is very similar. It's, it's a Protestant branch and it's, it's came around the same time as Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. So in the mid 19th century. But they, the alignment of seventh advent is very similar to j the Jewish religion. So we have, we observe a Sabbath. So from sunset Friday to Sunset Saturday, we, we were quite strict about observing that. So what that meant is restricted a lot of the opportunities we could get. Cause we were out the office, you know, know everybody. If they went out on a Friday, we weren't there. We would literally be going home or getting ready for church or worshiping or what have Speaker 5 00:09:01 You. And Speaker 4 00:09:01 We didn't drink, we didn't drink, Speaker 5 00:09:02 Didn't smoke and we don't smoke anyway. But, um, you know, and, and so Speaker 4 00:09:07 That's all changed now, wasn't it? <laugh>? Speaker 5 00:09:08 Oh, Speaker 4 00:09:09 So mine's slightly different. I went and I did a degree in law for a year, hated it. Uh, left, um, wanted to do something in what they call the migrant four. Um, so what that means is usually if you're coming from a Caribbean or African background, they expect you to either be in law, medicine, engineering or what's the Speaker 5 00:09:28 Fourth accountancy Speaker 4 00:09:29 Or finance. Yeah. So I went for the finance route, didn't really want to be an accountant. Hated like I have an aversion to exams, but literally did everything up until my last job. I had, I was like assistant finance manager. Yeah. Assistant to the finance manager. But I didn't wanna be an accountant because as much as I loved understanding about money, the nerdy side of it, which be, and when I tell people I'm an accountant, they usually laugh at me. They go, no way. And I go, yeah. Uh, but then I moved out of that because I loved, I love systems, I like that logical side of doing stuff. And I moved into it. So it was a lot more systems doing a lot more systems reporting and financial reporting, helping people to build systems. And I went into project management. And then around the time, I think in our early thirties, uh, I decided to kind of like branch out on my own, uh, and do my thing. Had had a very expensive lesson that time. Um, but then came back and I really loved doing the personal development stuff. I loved doing careers, I loved teaching people presentations. I loved working with young people. And basically we set up, um, some companies and um, my co-founder here basically just came alongside me cuz she was like, you're crap at the admin, you just got processes. Yeah, we Speaker 5 00:10:36 Don't get paid. Just Speaker 4 00:10:37 We're not getting paid on time. Where's the invoice? Speaker 5 00:10:38 Where's the invoice? <laugh> big Speaker 4 00:10:40 Picture's great, but we need the detail. Oh, why are you charging? So I said, all right, you know what? You'll be my fire to my ice and we'll do it from there. Speaker 5 00:10:47 Yeah. I think also because I came from a sales background and obviously is very, sy sales is still a very, I wanna say, system attacked, um, <laugh>. But, you know, there are lots of systems and, and processes around that. And then also, you know, being in sales as well, it was about the, you know, making sure that you are bringing in those numbers. Having the client conversations, understanding how important those emails are and you know, and how to, like I have a, I'm a bit of a stickler about emails just because often this is the, the written word, I learned this very young, the written word is open to interpretation. And so how you write it is gonna make a really big difference. And also, you never know what side of the bed somebody may have got up on. So you need to always make it as, as, uh, encouraging as possible. Whereas Dave's like, yeah, I'm coming. And that's the email. See you, bye. And I'm like, okay, that's not <laugh>. Yeah, I could do that. I'll be Speaker 4 00:11:39 There Speaker 5 00:11:40 Tomorrow. <laugh>. And it's like, okay, um, I think maybe we need a little bit more. No, what's thee, how do we Speaker 4 00:11:45 Need Speaker 5 00:11:45 Hello and signatures? Anyway, moving on. So for me, you know, I was, I was selling at, you know, my team were bringing it. And bear in mind, this is like the year of our lord, 2000, you know, 2001, you know, 14 million is what we're responsible for. And you know, I even on my own, you know, I, I sold the most Sheba laptops in the country. I had sold, um, the, you know, I had one of the biggest contracts that our organization actually had, uh, with a company called Schlumberger. And, uh, massive oil company. Well, massive. And oil and and gas. And so it's really interesting because you do these things, we don't even, you call, it's not always cognizant about them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and when I left as well, it was cause I left because I said, I can't do this in anymore. I was being bullied. Speaker 5 00:12:33 Um, I lost, you know, I had a miscarriage. I had a child already and I said, I'm not doing this again. And we had a great, absolutely great doctor when I had that miscarriage who was just like, you know, who, remember he was chewing Chewing gum. Yeah. Gum. He was just like, well, you know, you, you know, it's bad sad, but you gear for pregnancy, so go again. You know, and you know, you've got other people, girl, you know, you've gotta wait three months. It was like, he was like, no, go again. And so I got pregnant. That's how we got our youngest daughter, Lauren, Sona and Lauren are our, are our girls. And Speaker 4 00:13:05 Can I just pause on that a second while we're doing that, um, whenever we share the story of the doc, so sometimes we look back on it and we think, oh my gosh, it was, it's so incredulous that this guy was here, chewing gum. We're mortified. We've just lost a child and what have you. He's chewing gum and he's like, you are young, it's fine. You can get on loads of people have miscarriages, more people have more miscarriages than they have pregnancy. Just go in and have sex and you'll be fine. And I think we walked out of there laughing in shock. Cause we were like, mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what the hell just happened? Um, but then it was quite true. It was that, you know, very often the conversation around pregnancy often misses out that a lot of miscarriages happen a lot, a lot more than we realize. But what we decided to do, especially when Madden had Lauren, is that it wasn't gonna be stressful for her to have to be bullied and be under that kind of pressure anymore. And so we would find a way to work together and, and let's be honest, at this point, it's bloody hard working together as a couple mm-hmm. <affirmative> if you don't know what your lane is. Speaker 2 00:14:00 Right. Speaker 5 00:14:00 But that's a question that's worked there. Speaker 4 00:14:02 I'm just putting it out. I'm Speaker 5 00:14:03 Putting it out. Don't, don't jump the gum Speaker 2 00:14:05 <laugh>. No, no. You can go wherever you want. I'm, I must admit I'm still kind of got the picture of that doctor chewing gum. It just seems so disrespectful that I I love that you've gone took it as a positive eventually. And, and maybe it, it, you know, you you reframed it. But, um, I, I still can't quite get that picture outta my head Speaker 4 00:14:25 Percent. When we, when I, sometimes when I talked to people about it, they were like, what? Really? And I, and it's an interesting point because I think for us, once we were in that moment kind of like going, oh my God, what just happened? This is just like, you know, we were expecting the second child and it all went, you know, it all went south. Him doing that. We literally walked out of there with nervous laughter, just laughing like, oh my God, can you just believe what happened? And oh my God, this is true. And it was, to your point, for anybody else, it might have been what the hell just happened. But for us, it was almost like a vow for us to laugh and a vow for us to release and just be able to go, do you know what this is? Can be really overwhelming. And this caricature of a doctor has actually just made us laugh. And, and we go on to the next. But again, as you said, he reflects on you go, wow, did that actually happen? But I think for us, we took it as a, okay, this is not the end of the world. Speaker 5 00:15:19 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I think also for me, uh, certainly for me, I mean, it was a doctor that I'd had for a while. Yeah. And so I kind of knew his style, so I wasn't offended by it. And then whilst other people might go, this is terrible, actually, it was just, it was so sad. It was so hard and difficult to go through miscarriage that actually it was really quite refreshing for somebody to say, it's okay, this is part of life. Go for it. You know, you, you are you, you're good. It's not now spend the next three months depressed. It's mm-hmm. <affirmative> back on the yet <laugh> like the wrong Speaker 4 00:16:06 Listen podcast, please close your ears. Speaker 5 00:16:10 It's a saying. But, you know, and that was actually really refreshing. Like go for it. And actually through that whole process for me, that's when I learned miscarriage is really, really common. I, we may be having them and not even knowing that they're happening. Oh no, my period a bit late and then my period comes actually, that might have been a miscarriage. And so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it was just really fascinating as to how, just how these things that happen that we don't talk about, that we don't, uh, there's a whole issue about women's bodies and, and, and the, the fact that there are so many things that we go through. I'm menopausal, my goodness, somebody, why didn't anyone tell me that the end of 30 years of periods or however long it has been, you know, that there's just a nightmare waiting for you. I mean, it's, it's Speaker 2 00:16:56 Rubbish, isn't it? It's, it's like, why was there not more warning <laugh>? Speaker 5 00:17:00 There's no warning. Speaker 4 00:17:01 Can I, can I add one last bit to this as well? The, the other thing that I realized as well is that because of my experience, I'd say around the year or so that it happened, we knew about three or four friends in our wider network who also suffered miscarriages. And one of the conversations that I realized wasn't happening is for a lot of us as men in those situations specifically, we had to hold our grief so that we could let the moms grieve and, and, and our wives and partners grieve and being in that space. And what I found was being able to share the story of the chewing doctor for a lot of men allowed us to create space in that moment to grieve as well. To see that there, one, one of the things about humor for me as well, is that it, it, it makes us realize how, how fragile and silly life is. Speaker 4 00:17:55 So that's what humor is. Mm-hmm. It's the kind of like that, that dark side of us sometimes that we, we won't really wanna pick up and actually a address. And being able to do that, it, I got to speak to it, I got to speak, I'd speak about it. I, I, I use go and speak about it in schools. Mm-hmm. I used to speak about it in business and I would say, cause I would say to students, for example, look, life is really tough. Let me give you some examples of some stuff that's happened to me, lost my business, lost my house, lost a child, and kids. And students would be sitting at me like, well, what? And I'll go, I'll tell you the story of what happened because this is what's happened in real life. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And you know, sometimes it would be you, you look across the assembly room of 300 kids and you could see they were close to tears because I was being so raw about that. But I was really just trying to say to them, this is part and parcel of the journey. And again, in business. So you bring it back round and you realize sometimes these lessons, um, not for everybody, but sometimes these lessons are there to teach you how you cope in that situation. What does resilience look like? What does and informs the way that we work as well Speaker 2 00:18:55 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and good to build it from that early age as well for kids. You know, the fact that you're sort of sharing these stories that's, as you say, it's real life. Yeah. Speaker 5 00:19:03 And, and one thing I will say about in my own career, cuz I didn't just become David's admin assistant, but is that, you know, in leaving, and I think, again, another thing for a lot of women is like, I'm now out of, um, not in the workplace. How do I define myself? I don't have that title anymore. What does that mean? And I've, I'm behind, I'm not catching up, but, you know, uh, because everything's moved on without me and I'm with these children not realizing we're gaining a different set of skills. And so for me, it was just, I started doing little things like business consulting and sales consulting and, you know, I started coaching. I took a coaching course and, you know, and, and just finding myself cool to do things, doing consulting, working with business owners and recognizing, and that's how I got to where I, what I do now, which is just really recognizing sometimes we're working on the business, but actually if the business owner doesn't feel confident, doesn't have clarity, doesn't feel empowered, it seeps into the success of the organization. And so, and that's how I pivoted from working on kind of the business side to the person side. Um, and confidence has always been a thread for me. So, um, so yeah. And so we, we've had a number of rodeos when it comes to business, but this is the one that I think aligns with both of us the most. And, you know, that is about helping people to see what's possible for them. Um, and also to step into what we would call their magnificence. Speaker 2 00:20:36 I love that. And also the freedom that you still can do your own thing, but then collaborate as and when you want. Yeah. That feels like that's quite an important part of it as well. Speaker 4 00:20:48 Yeah, definitely. Yeah, Speaker 5 00:20:49 Definitely. Speaker 4 00:20:49 Definitely. And it is a, it's, we are war and all. Well, you saw what you saw, <laugh>, you saw, so, you know, we're quite war and all. And, and, and one of the things I I really believe in, in when we do share the stage and when we do work together, is getting people to understand what that balance actually looks like mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that sometimes we don't get it. Right. And, and then, you know, one of the, the, one of the things that really has jumped out when, when we are working together is sometimes we'll go into a room or go into spaces and people will often defer to me and I'll go, no, you need to talk to her. She's the boss. And sometimes you can see the shock on people's face, like, whoa, whoa, whoa. What? And I go, no, she's the boss. You gonna ask her? She's the answer. She's got all the answers. He's Speaker 5 00:21:31 A soft touch. Speaker 4 00:21:32 All right. Yes. Speaker 5 00:21:33 That's why the fire Nice. Yes. Speaker 4 00:21:35 <laugh>, she talks about the emails, right? And she says, mad will talk about the emails, but Maddy McQueen is the one who will go and burn down buildings, defeat territories and what have you. Whereas I'm like, okay, you alright? Are you okay? Speaker 2 00:21:48 <laugh> Speaker 4 00:21:49 Now you alright? But it is, but it is, it's, it's to your point, it's, it really is around how do we get to show up and how do we get to demonstrate without giving away too much, right. Because we, we will share personals and we, we select the bits that we are Yeah. Are personal about, but we also think those ones are really important for people to recognize all this hype and blue la and everything about, oh, everybody be happy at work. Like, that's crap. That's just not how it works. Let's talk about when it does work really well, but also let's talk about when it, when it does tits up. Speaker 2 00:22:20 Oh, obviously I know that Wendy wasn't there and I had the experience of of seeing the scholars learning from the two of you. And, and it is super powerful because I think, you know, the, the leaders of tomorrow, the, um, marketing directors who, you know, on track, you know, maybe for like C m O level, all of this does need to be trained because we are not the finished article. We are works in progress. I've picked that up from you. Yes, yes. <laugh> and I sort of speak to other people and everyone is obsessed about, you know, having a personal brand and how do you do this, how do you do that? And, and there's so much sense that we, we are supposed to know everything and of course we don't. So I think it's, it's great seeing that coaching being given to, to our future leaders. Speaker 4 00:23:02 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, thank you. Thank Speaker 5 00:23:03 You. Yeah. I think one of the things that as you get older we're still like, we feel like 18. Um, but it's, it's also recognizing that as you get older you realize how little you know and that's okay. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like, there's so much more to learn. So there's so much more, uh, it it's bigger than you ever thought it was. And so when you take the pressure off, like I start a lot of my workshops going, my name's not Google. Like, and even Google doesn't have all the answers. Your name's not Google. And so this expectation that we should know everything is unrealistic. And if you in in, in order to know everything, you'd never experience anybody else cuz you'd just always be trying to learn everything. So, um, I think the sooner that, you know, people on the leadership track recognize, I don't have to know everything, but what's important is to be able to tap into people who have pieces of the pie that's gonna make the biggest difference. Speaker 3 00:24:01 Do you mind if we go back even before you met and before the relation Yeah. Et cetera. So you met when you were 18 and it sounds like you discovered there was, you know, an element of your backgrounds that you had in common. Yeah. But I expect there was lots that you didn't as well. And I'd love to hear about your, how you each exp experienced childhood and how that might have influenced where you are today. So I'd love to hear what you were like as kids. Speaker 5 00:24:26 So, okay, so I'll go. So I said I'm from the Midlands, from Lester. My parents are uh, or were from the Caribbean. So my mom from Bobba is my dad from Antigua. I'm the youngest of six girls. Wow. Yeah. So for me, and, and they used to call us the Amazons and my dad had this thing like, if, if somebody hit you or put their hand on you, um, he was like, you have hands. Right. That was his thing for us. So we were never to be taken advantage of. Yeah. I was gonna say dainty, but, um, <laugh> and not, not that we couldn't be. And my, my mom, my mom also was, you know, she was very well dressed, which meant that we were all very well dressed, always color coordinated, uh, which is ingrained within me as a child. They used to save me that I've been down here before. Speaker 5 00:25:13 Um, I've, I think I've always been a little bit of an old soul and I've always been cheeky, I've always asked questions and I've always said things that people are like, oh my God, she said that. So I remember that. And I think also being the youngest of six girls, I know this for sure is always fighting to be heard cuz you have to, you're you, there's so many other people. Um, and also being the inverted coms baby also, again, like I'm not a baby, um, grown as woman. So there's, there's always that. But you know, we were always doing a something, you know, really quite creative and I was just saying, I was saying, you know, we used to do dances to things like ladies night and create them and a really vivid memories. And my older sister went off to, um, to do nursing. Speaker 5 00:26:05 And although she was still in Lester, but she was in Halls and the rest of us for the five of us. And we used to sing this, we are the Chambers five to, um, one of the uni blyton Yes. Famous five. Yes. Uh, tunes. So, yeah. And, and we had a whole dance to go with it and stuff. And so charters was fun. Um, and we used to often go to Victoria Park, it was a big part in the middle of Lester, um, and play cricket with my dad and my mom and my mom, mom. My parents were very young people focused. We used to have a party every year. And my mom made her dresses and she used to look glamorous and glorious. And she also, as I said, she, it was always about us being well dressed, well put together and color coordinated. Like that will never change in my life about being color coordinated and pressing your clothes and that kind of thing. Speaker 5 00:26:51 Um, but when I was 10, uh, I came home from school and, uh, my dad had had two strokes and then, um, oh no. And then that night he was rushed off to hospital and he died. And that was like completely world rocking. My mom was kind of, and also I think that was the day I had to become an adult, um, because it was also supporting my mom who has now, you know, lost her, you know, her, her life mate. And now had six children between the ages of 10 and 20 to be responsible for. And I think a lot, a lot of that has ch definitely shaped my life. Um, growing up Seventh Day Adventis too. Like, one of the things that we've always encouraged to do, you know, it had its challenges and its issues for sure the never good enough stuff, but also the being on stage, singing, presenting, you know, or that was our upbringings, which is why it's never been a problem for us to stand in front of a mic because we were doing that since Jesus was a boy, literally. Um, so, you know, so the, for me, that's kind of what it was. And you know, we used to have Caribbean nights where we'd, you know, learn so much more about the culture. So yeah. So that was my upbringing. And you know, going to school went to Abington in GAC in college we had purple blazer with a, um, a tiger emblem ti Yeah. On uh, in gold on our blazers. And we were just so proud cuz we had purple velvet blazers. It was just like, yeah. So that's, that was me. Okay. Speaker 4 00:28:21 I, I was born in St. Mary's Hospital, Paddington. Speaker 5 00:28:24 Oh, you really went back. All right. <laugh>. The, the hospital I was born in Lester is also called St. Mary's. It doesn't exist anymore. Oh really? It's Speaker 4 00:28:32 Freaky. Okay. So we were both born in St. Mary's Hospital. Ok. In different region. Speaker 5 00:28:35 What Speaker 4 00:28:35 Year? Uh, in the year of 1969. Speaker 5 00:28:38 Nine. About same year Speaker 4 00:28:39 Actually. The month you were born. What happened? Speaker 5 00:28:41 The month I was born, I have an affinity with, with Neil Armstrong because I was born on the 19th of July and they were, they were in the sky then. Um, <laugh>, that's my claim. Speaker 3 00:28:55 <laugh>. They did it on your birthday. It was a celebration. You Speaker 4 00:29:00 Guys love a full moon. Speaker 5 00:29:01 Yeah, but they are moon and sun and, you know, water. They're my things. Speaker 4 00:29:05 Okay. For clarity. She doesn't how, I'm just making sure that everybody knows Speaker 3 00:29:10 <laugh>. Speaker 4 00:29:10 So mine now. Okay. Born into Mary's hospital. Paddington, my mom is from Barbados, so both of our mothers are from Barbados and my dad is from Grenada. Um, they actually, ironically, they actually landed in England on the same day. But my dad came by boat and landed in Southampton and my mom flew from bar. But although my mom left, you know, a lot, uh, shorter than my dad, they both landed in England the same day. Grew up in northwest London in Harston for the first 10 years of my life. Uh, and then we moved to Harrow. Interesting story about that actually. So my dad was always very particular about the way we spoke and we were just talking about speaking and presenting. We used to have this thing in church. It was called 13 Sabbath. So basically four times in the year you'd literally, as a young person, you'd have to get up, you'd have to recite, recite passages of scripture, sing a song, play some music, do a little bit of drama, do Speaker 5 00:29:59 You play in a play Speaker 4 00:30:00 Or something. So any one of those force a performance was drummed into you. From there, there was no such thing as stagefright. You had Speaker 5 00:30:06 Choice <laugh> and also you were doing it from very, very young. Very young. Right. From very Speaker 4 00:30:10 Young. If you had stagefright, you concealed it very well. And probably in your thirties then had therapy about what actually happened. <laugh> time. But you were really confident about doing that. And the other thing which really stood out for us, and a part of our experience as well, which is really interesting when we've, when we've done work in youth work and, and even in in the corporate spaces, is that we know nothing different than growing up in what was an upwardly middle class Caribbean community. We were surrounded by doctors and lawyers and bankers and nurses, entrepreneurs, even for the word, we knew the word. That stuff was part of what we actually had. Ironically, and we didn't realize this until we actually slightly later on, where I think either when we got married or when we were dating Magdalene's dad and my dad actually met on a cricket pitch, I think. Speaker 5 00:30:55 I believe so something Speaker 4 00:30:56 Yeah. Years. The years before. And also when, before we had met, Speaker 5 00:30:59 Because they were both activists as well. Yes. So that within the church Yeah. To actually have allow kind of black representation. Representation Yeah. In the leadership. Yeah. So, and they was like, get togethers and caucuses and that kind of stuff. And so we never realized, and I think it wasn't even, I think it was well after we were married, that we realized that our parents had actually, they actually met and our, our father had actually met. Speaker 4 00:31:22 So it was in, it was in the stars or in the moon. Anyway, so <laugh>, so essentially we, we were surrounded by those individuals. And I said, I grew up, so a grip originally in, in Halden. And I, I actually remember <laugh>, it was a predominantly black school that I went to, but a lot of my friends used to say, you speak so posh, why'd you speak so posh? And my dad would really, like, he'd give us grammar lessons. Like I do this thing on LinkedIn called Word of the Day. It's still a throwback. Cause I love improving my language and I believe language is power. But a lot of my friends, they used to call me coconut. So basically they used to say the way I spoke, I was black on the outside and white on the inside. All right. That was a phrase. Okay. And then I moved to Harrow, which was predominantly white. Speaker 4 00:31:59 And I was one of a few black people and they used to call me Bourneville. So I gave myself the Monica, the Chocolate Boy wonder because between the bounty and the Bourneville, I thought, I'm gonna be able to take this, um, to use it to myself. And, and I, and I say this phrase because I realized that a lot of the stuff that we went through when we were younger, how I managed and how I coped in a lot of situations with the humor. Mm-hmm. So mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, growing up in 1970s Britain, there was a lot of racism. Right. You, you, you, it was, there was no subtlety. Right. It was very expressed. Mm-hmm. And there were times where my method of surviving was to be funny. I, I had to be funny because for me otherwise than that, I'll just get my, I madam will tell you I had a really bad temper and so I'll get angry. Speaker 4 00:32:38 My deflection is around humor and, and a lot of Caribbean folklore and community. A lot of it is around humor. A lot of it is around how you, you manage in those situations. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so again, you know, we were involved in both of us, um, sung. So we sung in church, we used to do choirs and we would both act, we would both speak. Um, we both lead singing, win lead. We were both in sports teams. We used to have this thing as well where the coach trips were a big thing. Right. The Caribbean community to go to Blackpool. I mean, I look back at it and they're like, why the hell did we get up in the morning? Yeah. From London, stupid o'clock in the morning to drive only to, the only point to go to Blackpool. Let's get it right. Yeah. Was to see the lights, why we left. Speaker 5 00:33:20 Even from Lester, you know, we went to the lake district for a day. I think we spent maybe four hours. Right. But the thing was the coach, the coach train. Speaker 4 00:33:28 Oh Speaker 5 00:33:28 My gosh. That's the best. Or the, or the, I mean we took the train one year. Oh really? Yeah. We all caught the train, uh, as a church and went to the lake district. Yeah. Like it was, it was mad. And actually it was so funny cuz we were always wondering who would miss it. Like, cuz the, the, you know, like there was always somebody who was gonna be late. And it was so funny. We remember the train was pulling off and this family were running downstairs, but obviously the train had gone. And yet when we got to the late district, they were there. <laugh> they clearly driven. Speaker 5 00:34:00 Um, but we weren't there for very long. But it was all about, cause we'd sing on the coach trips. Yes. We'd, there'd be jokes told. Stories. Stories. Yes. It was great. And I think for us as well, one of the things, you know, my sister wrote a book called, uh, one of my many, um, called Eagles who saw, cause it was her PhD. Um, and it was about how the difference between Caribbean children who survive well in the education system and those who struggle and, and the difference was community. Like, if they had community around them where they saw that the stereotypes that they were hearing on a daily basis weren't true, then it was like a bubble. It's like bullying the bubble. It doesn't mean it didn't hurt, it just mean it didn't come as deep cuz you knew something different. So every Saturday how we grew up, and this is a similarity, is that every Saturday we saw people who looked like us, who were doing great things, who owned homes and cards and things, you know? And so it, and you know, were successful and also were pushing education. So that made a really big difference to our existence. Yeah. And our sense of worth. Speaker 4 00:35:06 Yeah. And identity and Speaker 5 00:35:07 Pride. And identity and pride. Yeah. Because actually what you say is not true because every weekend we see it's not true. Mm-hmm. Speaker 4 00:35:14 <affirmative>. And that was, and that, that thing was quite powerful. Cause then it meant like if we turn on the television and we saw Trevor McDonald reading the news, or Moira Stewart, or we saw Lenny Henry doing tis walls or whatever the heck it was doing back in the day, there was something that was really aspirational. So even though people sometimes in, in the in schools and in communities who would try to hold back individuals and say they can't achieve, we were, were then going around and being part of a community, we were going, you're gonna be brilliant. You're gonna succeed. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you're gonna do really well. And that sense of community even, uh, one quick thing, and I shut up was, uh, in the Caribbean community, we used to have this thing called partner. And, and basically partner was the, what's known technically now as a revolving credit association. Speaker 4 00:35:56 Alright. So essentially you'd have a group of six people who would all put in, I don't know, a hundred pounds. Well the, when they used to get paid in their packet, they little, little brown envelopes when they used to get paid salaries in the week or what have you. Everybody would put in a certain amount and then that lump sum would then go to, it would rotate around the group. And what that meant is that they bought houses. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they bought cars, especially when individuals couldn't get access to mortgages. Or could they get, you know, equitable rates on, on, on cars and what have you. And, and it, and, and from that you got a sense of right. Even if the system doesn't allow you to be able to succeed in this way, there's a way of being able to play the system. And so that for us has been quite integral in the way that we've both developed as well. Speaker 3 00:36:39 And was there a particular childhood dream for both Speaker 4 00:36:43 Of you? You would've been looking at Dr. David, but no, <laugh>, that was it. I always wanted to be married though. I always did want to be married and I wanted to have anywhere between two to four children. That was part of my childhood. Speaker 3 00:36:54 There we go. Speaker 5 00:36:54 I never knew what I wanted to do as a career. If I'm, I'm being honest, in my heart, I always knew I was destined for greatness. I didn't know where that would show up. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I remember being 14, sitting uh, on the back pew of Lester, seventh day Advent Church and sitting there going, by the time I'm 30 I wanna be in management. I wanna be married and I wanna have had my first child. This is the first understanding of manifesting because I did get to 30, I has had been promoted to a manager. I was married and I'd had my first child. So that's, that's, that's it for me. Manifest. So Speaker 3 00:37:29 Yeah. <laugh>, uh, I apologize if this is a bit cheesy, but, uh, a cheesy Mr and Mrs style question. Madeline, if you could give David a teenage David some advice, what would that be? Speaker 5 00:37:44 So my, my teenage advice for David would be trust your heart and go for it anyway. Like without reservation. Just go for it. You don't have to be what anybody else says, you must be you, you can be what you want to be. Speaker 3 00:38:00 That's lovely. And David, how about Speaker 4 00:38:02 You? You're smarter than you think and academics isn't the measurement of your smartness. Speaker 3 00:38:07 Ooh, I love that. Speaker 2 00:38:08 That is wonderful. I'm dying to get onto the, um, the sort of like the quickfire round. But before we move on to that, because I think all four of us are passionate about future leaders and helping people in, you know, particularly in the marketing and advertising industry, uh, move forward. Just going back to what it is that you, you do and, and how you are helping, if I can focus on the, the marketing Academy scholars, cuz that's, that's our kind of mutual connection as well. Yeah. What are the areas that you are trying to focus on to shape those leaders of the future? Speaker 5 00:38:41 I'm, I'm gonna go back to clarity, confidence, and empowerment. I think when people really get Stu I do a lot of work within the advertising marketing space and that lack of clarity is really impacting people and it impacts how they feel about how they can show up. And if cuz they can feel very directionless, which means that you are completely at the mercy of the agency. You know, overworking, you know, trying way too hard. And actually can you just get clear about what you are trying to achieve, why you are here, what you want to do. Because that will serve you no matter where you go. And no matter what projects come your way. And my biggie is also about get comfortable with asking the difficult questions. Whether that's of your team, whether that's of your clients. And I don't think we ask clients any. Speaker 5 00:39:31 We're not, we're not challenging enough with them, which is why we end up wasting a lot of time. I I see it wasting a lot of time creating or doing things that actually aren't what the client really wants. Cause we didn't spend the time to ask the question. So we're just so desperate to please. And I'm, I would say, you know, one of the things for me is don't be so desperate to please be desperate to understand. So get that clarity. Build evidence-based confidence in yourself. Like you can do this. Sitting question yourself isn't gonna make the difference. Look at what you've achieved, but also build that in your teams as well and give them the praise that's due. I think that's the stuff that I want to see. And then, then together you can be empowered and encourage them to ask questions. That's what I want 'em to do. Speaker 5 00:40:16 Encourage your team because you don't have all the answers, but somebody might have a nugget in your team. But when you do this whole, I need to be the brand, I need to be this, I've got to know it all, then actually I think that's a recipe for failure. And as we all know, there is a lot of mediocre in management in the nicest possible way. Um, and that's because people won't do the work on themselves to get where they need to go. So do that work and be ever learning, um, and recognize you are a working progress. Speaker 2 00:40:45 That's some great advice. Speaker 4 00:40:46 There. There are two bits to mind. The first one is around being courageous. So my kind of signature program is called The Brave Leader. And, and one of the reasons why I went with that is that you'll see, or you saw a slide, when we ask people questions around how do you feel about telling people no or how do you feel about overwork or how do you feel about being in this position? You see people are absolutely afraid of what other people think. And so I'm not dismissing that as a part of the reality, but I want to know how courageous are you to not let that be the determinant around the way that you actually work. And then the second part of what I, my approaches is that I really think about a generation now who can be a lot more inclusive than our generation and the generation before. Speaker 4 00:41:29 And often when people hear me talk about inclusive, they only think about the protected characteristics around gender, around race and ethnicity, around orientation, around ability. But for me, I think it's a lot wider than that. I think it's about how do we make decisions? How do we solve problems? How do we think strategically that impacts every single area. I'm really happy for you that you will go into a race action plan that, or, or you'll go and do a gender, uh, plan. But if that's not systemic and if it's not part of the fabric or the DNA of the organization, you'll be out there fighting an individual battle, but then you get depressed, burnt out and wasted because it's not part of the system. So how, when you're making purchasing, how, when you're doing customer experience, how, when you're doing your financial allocation and your budgets, how when you're doing your whole talent process from recruitment to attraction, all the way to hiring up to leadership, how can we make it inclusive to the extent you go, have I thought about the best result for this? And what are my blind spots? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's tough. But it's that the, the, the underlying bit around my coaching and approach is systemic. How do we make sure that this is part of a wider system rather than an individual action? And too often I think that leadership pitch focus is just on the one person. And I think leadership should focus on the system that creates those individuals in there. Speaker 3 00:42:41 I'd love to hear about anyone in particular who's influenced you along the way or who's supported you in your career. Speaker 4 00:42:50 I've quite a few. My mentor Liam, he is a guy called Liam Black is tall, six foot three Irish dude, he's so, he's so straightforward. Like he literally, he said, I don't care what anyone else is saying, I'm not gonna give you the bs, I'm just gonna tell you as it is. And I remember I, when actually before I first asked him to be a mentor for me, he used to wind me up like something. And I, and I used to think, why is this man winding me up so much? What is it about him? And then I realized it was just that straightforwardness, it was just that real directness. And we connected and he's been mentoring me for a while. So he's been very, very pivotal, especially on this part of my career. But outside of that, there were a lot of the role models were external. Speaker 4 00:43:27 I, I liked Richard Branson because of his sense of adventure. I was able to go and work with him for a little while, which is, which is quite interesting and quite challenging. It was just to see his way of the world. I was also a big fan of innovators like Mary Curie. I like the fact that you had an individual who would be like, stick two fingers up to the system. Madam CJ Walker, who created the first kind of right hair products for black women when people, when she was a millionaire. When people, you know, in the black community, you couldn't even really do that stuff. So I had a lot of externals as well as the ones who were, were touching points to me. And obviously my good lady wife as well has been a, an incredible support and an anchor for me. Let's mm-hmm. <affirmative> as a, as an anchor for me to remind me to just kind of like keep my feet on the ground. Speaker 5 00:44:07 I don't have many, the first person is my dad because my dad ran his own business, co-ran a business. He was a mechanic and honest, you know, like, I never don't think I, it's as I've got older that I realize that, hold on, entrepreneurialism has been in my family all this time. You know, it it, like I grew up with that. And so no wonder I couldn't find, settle on, oh, I do this or do that. It's because actually there was something else that was pulling at me. And my dad was just the best in that respect. And also just, he always used to take us with him so and so, like his girls. It, there was nothing that we couldn't do. So we would, Sunday mornings we would be at the, you know, his mechanic shop with him learning about cars. Um, and then on top of that, when he died o o on top of our family home, we had four of the houses. Speaker 5 00:45:01 And that was because, I mean, we, we didn't keep them, but cause mum couldn't cope. But, but that was the whole thing of ensuring that each of his daughters had a property. And it's just, it's like I've always had a love of property and that comes from my dad. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then, um, you know, over the years there have been different people. Um, in, in recent years, there's a particular woman who I've never met, but I listened to her book. A lot of what she has done has really impacted me. Her name's Katherine Ponder and the book is called The Divine Laws of Prosperity. And she was the first person I heard say, who's a Christian, that poverty is a sin and that actually our birthright is to be is, is to be wealthy. But not from that whole grabby, grabby kind of, you know, Creflo dollar way. Speaker 5 00:45:51 But the, you know, <laugh>, sorry I said it, but you know, just from the whole thing of mindset, mindset, my, I'm always banging on about mindset because what we think and what we focus on is what we seem to be able to produce. And I've seen it both ways in my own life. And then there's a guy who I call my mentor, but I think, I think we've sat down to have a mentor session twice, but they've been so impactful. There's a guy called Philip Deyle. He used to run own a televi, a telecoms company. And he was one of the people who said to me, you have got a something, you know, he sat down with you, this older white guy, you know, sit down. I went to meet him one day at his house and he was just like, you, you've got something. You and I was, at the time, we were really struggling financially. Speaker 5 00:46:42 I said, you know, I wanna stop struggling. I'd like to be wealthy. And he said, you are one of the wealthier people that I know, Madeline McQueen. And I was like, sorry, I beg your pardon, pardon. Didn't 2:00 PM my, um, and he is like, he was like, you are one of the wealth because you need to look at wealth in a different way. You need to look at how rich you are in so many different aspects of your life that has been life changing. And then I met him a few years just before the pandemic. I, we sat down together. And again, I mean, I, I cried for a lot of our session just because as he into me and saw me, and I think that's makes a really big difference when somebody sees you. I, I, there's another person who is a really impactful person in my life. Speaker 5 00:47:23 Her name is Remi Ray. She's phenomenal. She's like 15, 16 years, maybe longer, a bit more than that. Actually younger than me, but she's like an old head. And I, I just love spending time with her. Um, she's dyslexic and her brain just works at a way I could never even attempt. She can consume information on a different level, but what I gained from her and vice versa is just pure joy. It's like, oh my God, your brain is amazing. And I just could listen to it all day. And then obviously Mr. Mack, he's um, he's actually one of my biggest supporters and that makes a really big difference. And there are other people in my life, some of my friends who are just like, you've got this and that makes a really big difference. And over the years, well, last thing I'll say on this is I say all the time that sometimes we have friends by default rather than by design. And, um, some of those default friends aren't really your friends. And Davis David will say, look who's clapping when something great happens to you. I have a few people and I have less friends now than I ever did before, but they clap and that makes difference. Speaker 2 00:48:30 That is so good. That is so good. Speaker 3 00:48:33 Right. We're gonna move on to the final part of the podcast now where, um, we ask a few personal questions, although I think it probably already has been quite personal. Um, so let's start with what's your idea of a perfect weekend? Speaker 4 00:48:45 Mine in the sofa, sitting down, not having to get up too early in the morning, just watching crack TV on YouTube. Speaker 5 00:48:52 That Saturday. That Saturday is that Sunday, um, is maybe going out for a meal or Definitely having some kind of Sunday dinner together currently with, with our, with our kids. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and anyone else who kind of wants to come along. But yeah, indeed that's Sunday Speaker 4 00:49:10 Roast Speaker 5 00:49:10 Would and, and it would've been maybe going for a walk as well, wouldn't Speaker 3 00:49:13 It? Yes. Very nice. And if we were to have a mooch around in your fridge, what would Speaker 5 00:49:17 We find? Which one is the question we'd first ask? <laugh>? The second question would be, yeah, there's always gonna be salad. Lots of salad and spinach and, and and things like that. Mushrooms, uh, you're gonna find some cheeses. You're Speaker 4 00:49:30 Gonna find seven different types of cheeses. Speaker 5 00:49:32 You're gonna find oat cream, you're gonna find, um, fruit juice, oat milk. You're gonna find fruit juice. You're gonna find almond milk. There'll be a little bit of Julie's cow's milk. Well, she was still trying to get her off. Speaker 3 00:49:43 Um, pour the milks. Speaker 5 00:49:44 <laugh>. And what else? There'd be some bread in there, wouldn't there? A little bit of bread, some meats. Most probably. Yes. Salt. Always salt. Yeah. Go Speaker 2 00:49:54 Selfish. <laugh>. Okay. This can either be an individual question or a joint one, but if you could both be remembered for one thing, what would it be? Speaker 4 00:50:02 Making people smile. Speaker 5 00:50:06 It would be making people feel like they could be authentically themselves. Speaker 2 00:50:11 I love that. I love that. What's the best compliment you've ever received? Speaker 4 00:50:16 You've got sexy lips. Speaker 7 00:50:18 <laugh>, Speaker 2 00:50:25 Madeline up to that one. <laugh>. Speaker 5 00:50:28 I actually really don't know. Um, I think my best compliment is notably around, uh, I know it is this one and maybe I've heard it a number of times, is that you have so much light. Speaker 2 00:50:41 Oh, that's Speaker 4 00:50:42 Nice. So you can shine it on my six <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:50:48 So how would your friends describe you? Speaker 5 00:50:50 Most? Probably mad by name, made by nature. One of my friends says I'm like a hug. And also empowering, I suppose, and supportive and funny. Speaker 4 00:51:02 They would say that I'm crazy. <laugh>. They would say that I'm very loving and they would say that I would, the one thing that they all know is I'll always put my family first before anything else. Speaker 5 00:51:15 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Who said that? Speaker 4 00:51:17 Don't worry, my friends. Speaker 2 00:51:18 <laugh>. <laugh>. Not the sexy lip ones though. <laugh>, we have covered so much today and I just want to say a very heartfelt thank you for being here because I know that you are in high demand and it's, it's just wonderful to, to have this, uh, opportunity to talk to you both. Is there anything that we didn't cover that you really wanted to talk about or any last thoughts from the two of you? Speaker 4 00:51:45 I don't think there's anything that we think you didn't cover, but I, I want to personally, I wanna honor you for asking us to be on this because very often when we are asked to do things or be part of it, I see it especially as a privilege. I think of the billions of people in this world who don't get the opportunity to have this fun, who don't get the opportunity to do this. And to be able to have the technology and the time and the space to do this, I find it fascinating. So I never take it for granted. So for me, I'm incredibly grateful for it and I just love doing it. I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you for allowing us to have that space to do that Speaker 5 00:52:18 With me. Mm-hmm. I, I'm gonna say thank you for, um, inviting both of us. Yes. Because often, like, you know, David is linked in famous and you want to say that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so it's really interesting how, how people can sometimes be not recognizing and like you said, you know, we've delivered before together. In fact, I booked it, I wrote the program and then we delivered it together and then somebody's going, I'd like to say thank David and his team for coming and it's just like, Speaker 2 00:52:49 Oh Speaker 5 00:52:49 Bitch, Speaker 2 00:52:51 <laugh> <laugh>. Speaker 5 00:52:56 So, so it's really lovely to be also invited and just to be here and I had the opportunity to just talk about it. There are no thing, nothing that I would think that we'd needed to say unless it was something that you wanted us to talk about, because it's not our podcast, it's yours. And also just well done for doing it, continuing it persisting with it, and also for having the insight, ForSight, whatever you want to call it, to, and the grace to ask us Speaker 1 00:53:24 To be be here. So thank you so much. You've been listening to Genuine Humans brought to you by the social element. If you loved what you heard, remember to subscribe or you can find out more at www dot the social element agency.

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